Unrealistic Expectations

Online, Real Life

From an old discussion on soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm.femdom:

Developing a love interest online is a tricky business: loving someone in the real world is filled with spaces… quiet moments, banal moments, boring moments, brushing your teeth, taking a shower, driving to the dentist, having the flu. These spaces when we’re not intensely connected with our loved ones are expected, we’re comfortable with them. But when you fall in love with someone online, the relationship is “distilled” … those moments are removed and you’re left with a LOT a “quality” time and very little downtime- time spent talking, playing, emotionally holding hands (or more)- but if one thing is for sure, you almost never *waste* time with one another because if you live in the busy world the rest of us share, you don’t have TIME to waste. You make the most of every moment.

But this sets up terrible and unrealistic expectations, often despite how grounded you are or how rationally you consider your relationship. It is, at it’s core, the perfect interactive fantasy and that intense, heady, passionate fantasy all too often doesn’t translate into real life. The odd thing is how well ~friendships~ translate into real life, though, but that might not be so odd after all- it probably has something to do with expectation levels and a distinct lack of sexual tension inherent in the initial meeting.

Disappearing Dates

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Admit Your Needs

Online

If someone writes a personal which states, basically, that they want to be “forced” to live out some fantasy of their own, I’d tend to agree with you : they probably want someone to fulfill their fantasy more than they want to submit. [1]

But… If someone who wants to submit has some specific activities that they particularly like, or dislike, or simply can’t engage in, then it makes sense for the personal ad to mention them. They suffer intense claustrophobia and find bondage traumatic - that’s useful information, as it keeps someone who -likes- tying her submissives up from engaging in what would likely be mutually unfulfilling. Someone else is a heavy masochist, -loves- crops and canes and zippers to the point where such painplay is a joy and reward to them - makes sense to mention it, so’s the dominant who also likes painplay and wants a submissive who’ll look forward go heavy beatings has an extra bit of knowledge to perhaps pique her interest.

If there’s something the would-be submissive needs occasionally in order to feel fulfilled… Again, it makes sense for him or her to mention it. But, there is a -big- difference between the person who mentions, perhaps, that they enjoy crossdressing and would like to serve a dominant who’d at times appreciate their frilly side, and the one who firmly believes that if the woman isn’t “forcing” them to crossdress that it isn’t domination

.

One is, perhaps, someone whose primary pleasure is to serve and submit to another but who also likes wearing taffetta - the other is probably someone whose primary interest is indulging in their fantasy, and is perhaps misleading others by insisting that they are really submissive.

[1] Which there’s certainly nothing wrong with - though it would be nice if more would communicate what they want more clearly.

(Old newsgroup posting.)

Finding the Submissive Man of Your Dreams

General

From an old newsgroup post by Laura Goodwin:

t certainly is possible for femdom men and women to meet and form satisfying relationships of either short or long-term duration. Such relationships can seem, with all their imperfections, to still seem to be a dream come true. People want practical suggestions for ways to accomplish this.

Men and women are different. In general, (heterosexual) men and women who try to see things from the other’s point of view and make a sincere effort to bridge the gender gap have the most success in relationships.

Women are women, not men without cocks. Women think and feel like women, they have sexual and psychological needs which are distinctive to those of their sex. They need partners who appreciate them as women, that is, whole human beings who also are female. They don’t stop being female because they are dominant, if anything, their female characteristics are more pronounced than in the average woman. Women do have their own kind of strength and authority which is not the strength of the head-banging ram, but the ready courage and steady dependability of the lioness.

Women do need partners who can understand and appreciate them on their own level. I have seen that men are inclined to try, and in many cases are quite successful. There are human limits, however, to how much one can reasonably expect. Men do need to be allowed to be men, they can’t help that, can they? Men are not women with cocks. They think and feel differently about things, and need to be understood and handled correctly.

In a femdom relationship, the woman is naturally expected to take control and set the pace, but to accomplish this she has to capture and hold the man’s attention and respect in a way he understands and can appreciate. Dominant women must be bolder and less dainty than your average woman. If SHE wants to find a dream sub, she has to be able to be dream dom, or the man won’t be able to find it within himself to match her. A sub can only rise as high as his mistress will let him. If she won’t show drive, creativity, ambition and daring, you can’t expect him to be at his best either.

Be a woman a man can look up to, and he will be all the man he can be for you.

Real Submissives

Online

Janet Hardy (Greenery Press) on “real submissives.”

You can accept the fact that all healthy people have their own needs, and that you’re never going to find a submissive partner who doesn’t have needs of his or her own — at least not one that you’d actually want to spend time with.

Instead, watch for the guy who is clear about his needs but willing to explore other options, and steer clear of the one who wants things exactly his way every single time, without regard for what *you* want. And then accept the fact that unless your needs and his are a reasonably close fit, you won’t be able to play well, and you’ll wind up frustrated and bitter.

Any writer or leader who tells you that there are so-called “real submissives” out there who have no desires of their own, but exist only to serve, is lying to you (or has had singularly good luck in finding submissives whose needs are close to his or hers).

Dom(me’s) advice/abuse from ‘subs’

Looking for Submissive Men Can Be Stressful

Online

Over ten years ago a dominant woman was looking for submissive guys online. These were her experiences:

I am doubting the existence of any men who are willing to submit, and are whole people. I have been told I am too demanding, or not dom enough, ad nauseum. I feel like I’ve tried it all - being myself (a total multi-faceted person), more private, more understanding, more dom … I used to think I understood a lot about human nature. Now, like Akasha’s situation, they all seem totally self-absorbed, in it just for themselves with no regard for the other person’s feelings. Without exception, all my simple requests (for a letter, or a few questions answered, etc.) have been met with resistance.

This is just a request for other Dom(mes) to share their experience and/or advice, including their difficulties or successes in finding partners. (Saw a few happy endings here not long ago. Any others?) Have you had the same problems that I’ve had getting to know folks on the web, not to mention moving beyond that stage? I feel like nobody else could’ve had this much crap to dig through. I wish that were true, but I’d also like to hear that I’m not alone in this.

:-/

I never thought finding a partner would be easy. I DID think at least a few of those I corresponded with would be sincere, honest, and relatively well-balanced. If what I’ve seen so far is any indication, there exists no such creature. Almost without exeption they have begun with claims like, “You don’t know how serious I am”, and “This desire has been with me since I was a teenager”, etc. Ha! One “wrong” word and they disappear like water down a drain! I wouldn’t resent the investment of time if I had come across even one guy who was honest. They all seem to be misogynists - waiting for any excuse to release their venom on you (me). And not having been able to find any good research on bdsm participants, I am beginning to wonder…

It has been my policy not to respond to guys who didn’t bother to write one simple email to introduce themselves. For a while, if they IM’d me, I would tell them I would welcome an email. More often than not, they ignore that - either continue to IM, or not write, or write once - usually calling ME insincere, and worse. I got so weary of that that I made a ‘form’ letter to try to explain, nicely, why requesting an email w/ their interests, etc., was reasonable. So far, that has resulted in just another jumping off point for them to insult me. And nearly all of them have criticized me or disappeared when I wouldn’t send them a picture right away. (It seems only prudent to protect my privacy until I get to know someone.)

l have been called ‘stupid’ for refusing to give out my phone #, criticized for misuse of a word in an IM, and most often insulted because I did not want to respond in the way they desired. Lately, when I took the time to write a letter explaining my viewpoint, it was simply deleted. Another guy I wrote a fairly long letter to simply deleted his screen name. And one reason I’m as cautious as I am now about my time is - one guy who ‘chatted’ for weeks (in the beginning of my search for info), one day said, “Surprise! I am not who I claim to be! I’m already collared, and MY MISTRESS was allowing me to ‘lead you on’ to ‘teach you about the unscrupulous people online’. Very amusing. (Since then, I have seen numerous ads that he has placed w/ various personas; this really makes me think that none of the ads are sincere - that there are just a few weirdos out there doing ALL the ads and IMs and writing! Too bad there isn’t a database/listing for us to warn one another about these strange ones.) Yet another, after weeks of thinking I knew him as a friend, revealed that he and another female friend liked to set up chat rooms with various fake interests, and lead people on that way. Cute.

There were three other guys (over 40yo for the record) that I spent several weeks writing and trying to get to know (one at a time). Two were big fans of Akasha, and they all claimed to have been looking for this kind of relationship for a long time. I took that to mean they had a clue. Ha! I finally figured that they were all three frauds. To one, being submissive meant (if we actually met, etc)., that he was accustomed to sexual release [masturbation] 3x/d min., and expected every session to end w/ me grabbing his hair and grinding my crotch in his face. That was his idea of being ‘collared’. Another first accused me of not being dom enough to ‘handle him’ (big tough ceo that he was), so I showed him more of that side, just for him to ‘pull out’ the ‘sick ex-wife needs attention/can’t get involved right now’ routine. The third shared 3 major hobbies w/ me, in addition to D/s. He also dropped out of sight w/ no ‘thank you, ma’am”. Not once has a guy ever just said, “Thanks for your time, but I don’t think we’re compatible.” Insults and disappearing acts, that’s been it! Wolves in sheep’s clothing…

One other quick question. Have you folks found that most of the guys who are into the life are young? I’m over 40 and ideally would hope to find a guy near my age, or older, but most who respond have been 20-30. (And rather than tell me about their minds, hearts, and philosophies, brag about how in shape they are, which is about the last thing on my list of criteria.)

Public Submissiveness

Real Life

By Chris

You can easily be submissive publicly without annoying women. Try saying “ma’am” most of the time when you are talking to them, in a polite way. If you are in a restaurant, say, “May I have a cup of coffee, ma’am?” When she brings it, say “thank you, ma’am”. They won’t find it annoying, but they will find it odd sometimes. I tried it s few times, and did get a couple of funny looks, since it’s so unusual for people to be that polite to a waitress, who is the one who usually says “sir” or “ma’am”.

Self-Confidence

Vanilla Advice

The International Journal of Cosmetic Science reports on the effect of deodorant soap and male sex appeal:

… Men in the active deodorant condition had higher ratings of self-confidence within 15 minutes of spraying the stuff on. Their feelings of attractiveness increased slowly over the course of three days. The researchers believe that those feelings of self-confidence and attractiveness showed through in the men’s behavior, with subtle traits that were identified by female viewers as more attractive. …

Want a Sure-Fire Way to Score a Valentine’s Date? Spray on Some Axe

Smelling nice - certainly not smelling bad - can benefit a man when he’s with a woman. But self-confidence has a much greater effect in strengthening his desirability.

This is another reminder that a submissive male who writes a profile boasting that he is merely a worm or worthless or some else low and contemptible will never attract a dominant woman. A dominant woman wants you to submit to her for personal reasons. She’s not intending to root through the trash bin of human failure.

So butch up and let your self-esteem be visible. And if you don’t like yourself seek help.

Be Yourself

Vanilla Advice

Romantic cliches.
Don’t get lost in romantic clichés

Another tip from the source quoted in the prior entry:

Another turn-off is profiles littered with cheesy clichés. One woman in Whitty’s study complained that so many people say they enjoy walks on the beach that she is surprised the beach isn’t overrun.

That was certainly a peeve of mine some years back.

Not just the walks on the beach (though I did see a tremendous number of those). Too many people claimed nearly identical romantic aims and preferences. It was as if they were using some Platonic archetype of dating.

No individuality was expressed, leaving no reason to want to meet them.

Submissive males need to say more than they want to submit. If you are on a site like Alt or CollarMe it says so in your profile. Aside from mentioning your submissiveness you need to reference other portions of your life. This is the biggest single failing of submissive guys’ dating service profiles.

The Truth and Nothing But

Vanilla Advice

Honest Online Profiles Essential

Psychologist Monica Whitty at Nottingham Trent University in Great Britain has been studying online dating.

She advises total honesty:

“There is no forgiveness of any inaccuracies,” she says. “If you’re an inch shorter than you say you are, you’ll be found out.”

That surely seems obvious. But there’s still the temptation to amend reality just a tiny bit. Trust is so very important in BDSM even the whitest of lies may cost you any chance of success.

The dating game

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